South Island Wargaming, New Zealand.

South Island Wargaming, New Zealand.

 
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 Post subject: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:31 pm 
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Location: Christchurch
I'm just learning 6th ed and have come across the out of range wound allocation FAQ. It has me perplexed; I understand how it works both pre and post FAQ, but it seems like a big departure from previous editions and simple logic.

Are people playing it as written, ie you can allocate wounds to any model that is in range of the longest range weapon, or are people rolling different range weapons seperately and not allowing models that are out of range of a specific model to be wounded? Seems some people on the net are ignoring the rules as written so i wanted to get a consensus from the local community.

I can see how it would be used to steamline things but it really doesnt make sense to me in regards to flame templates. Say you give a squad of 4 flamers a bolter, suddenly you can kill a lot more models than if you didnt have it. I would have thought you could only kill stuff that was under the flame templates.

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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:16 pm 
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At my place, and when i play at Cavs we generally play as close to the letter of the law (RAW) as possible despite how dumb they are some times (like this time) It's just so much easier if you're going to be playing people you don't know to play as close to the rules/FAQs as possible.

At Conquest, i'm expecting people to play RAW as much as possible, except when they create unplayable situations (allowing models to stop on flyer bases (from their army) seems to be ok under the rules but creates way too many issues, including units that can't be assaulted, for example; the "rules" for the skyshield landing pad are another example) the only exceptions to this i'm planning on publishing well before the event (such as the 180 degree firing arc for doomscythes and helldrakes)

I'd be curious to know if anyone locally is playing with each weapon being limited to it's specified range. i'm sure it's happening in some parts of the US/Europe but NZ's community is generally so small that i don't see it happening here.


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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:39 pm 
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Thanks Wes,

I cant see too many occaisions were this would be too much of an issue. Usually if one model is in range, its likely that most of the others are or are pretty close to it. Makes taking a heavy weapon in marine and guard squads a good idea. I guess you have to plan your army accordingly. It does make flamers in small squads very interesting too.

Anyone here tailoring squads to take advantage of these rules and if so, how?

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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:46 pm 
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well, with ork burnaz, running a mek w/ a big shoota is no longer a foolish thing, since it effectively increases the range of the flamers out to 36" (not that you'd need it that far away but stranger things have happened)

marines and guard find it easy to take a much longer ranged weapon, so they often do.

really though, it's surprising how seldom this comes up as an issue (outside of units full of templates and nothing else)


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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:15 pm 
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One notable instance:

Flamers of Tzeentch with a pyrocaster who's gotten the 18" range pew pew gift. this is just nasty cos all you have to do is nick a squad with a few of the flame templates......

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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:27 pm 
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Location: Speargrass Flat
5 Eldar Wraith guard with S4 AP2 D scythes and a spiritseer casting voice of twilight from the Iyanden supplement with a 12 inch shuriken pistol. I sent that unit up to a guard blob with Tigerius in it and ran 45 wounds on them. Seems reasonable to me.


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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:33 pm 
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Nice

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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:07 am 
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In play testing this Wraith spirit seer combo has raped everything it reaches. The combo is an abuse of the wound allocation rules as the shuripistol gives a 12 inch wound bubble to an AP2 weapon with 6's causing instant death and auto armourpen. How about the spacemarine player who moves 9 of his 10 marines into bolter 12 inch doubletap and leaves one marine at single shot 24 inch range to drift the wounds outside the 12 inch double tap? The auto cannon guard squad? Eldar guardians with one 48 inch lascannon shot and 36 more 12 inch shiriken shots?
All's fair I reckon.


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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:54 pm 
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Shaun wrote:
How about the spacemarine player who moves 9 of his 10 marines into bolter 12 inch doubletap and leaves one marine at single shot 24 inch range to drift the wounds outside the 12 inch double tap?


the range of the weapon is 24" regardless of whether or not you get 2 shots at 12", so you'll always have a "kill bubble" of 24"

as for the squad, the pistol extends the range by a "whopping" 4", so not really that disgusting, and secondly, if someone is going to stand around and let you do that to them, they deserve it :lol:


Last edited by Wes on Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:46 pm 
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If all bolters are fired twice at 12 inches then wounds will only go to 12 inches you need that one shot that is fired at a 24 inch range to allow the wound bubble to extend beyond the 12 inch range. So far Chaos lords, Blood Angel squads, Tiggy random marines and today an escalation bastion with void sheilds and all the BS. Buildings can't run and its a D6 for each scythe, prescience means rerolls to wound and re-rolls to pen the building on 6's very nice thing to run. :D


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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:54 am 
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Shaun wrote:
If all bolters are fired twice at 12 inches then wounds will only go to 12 inches


the bolters' range doesn't change. It's still listed as 24", so it's still 24". Sure, it gets extra shots at 12" but that doesn't suddenly make it a 12" ranged weapon

and Prescience lets you re-roll hits and wounds, not armour penetrations. you should still manage a 6 with 5 of them firing but it gets harder.


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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:18 am 
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and in case it isn't clear, because i have the privilege of running a couple of large-ish events twice a year in christchurch, these are the answers i would give to someone at one of those events (or at the club when someone asked). I'm not trying to tell you how to play the game, just what i sincerely believe the rules say


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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:16 am 
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Wes wrote:
and in case it isn't clear, because i have the privilege of running a couple of large-ish events twice a year in christchurch, these are the answers i would give to someone at one of those events (or at the club when someone asked). I'm not trying to tell you how to play the game, just what i sincerely believe the rules say


This article may explain things better than me
3+ Info on wound allocation


Wes wrote:
the range of the weapon is 24" regardless of whether or not you get 2 shots at 12", so you'll always have a "kill bubble" of 24"


Hi Wes, respectfully the range of the weapon is not 24" regardless. Range is determined at the time of roll to hit under the profile used.

Rapid fire describes the 2 seperate ranges, half range and maximum range. 'Alternatively' is the key word in the rapid fire description, you can use one range or the other not both.

You may want to consider how you intend rolling to hit using 2 weapon descriptions at the same time. A weapon fires and rolls to hit using only one profile that profile is determined by factors including range. In the bolters case the one you actually rolled to hit on using a 12" range. You can't use only one profile and allocate rolls to hit on the second unused profile.

If for example a bolter has the potential to shoot 12" twice and a squad used all their bolters in that manner that turn the wounds stop at 12" because thats the bolters profile the way it was used that turn when rolls to hit were made.
Rolls to hit is the time when in range/out of range is determined.


Unless one bolter in the unit was used with a 24" profile (ie that model was placed at 13") the wound pool stops at 12".

Wes wrote:
Prescience lets you re-roll hits and wounds, not armour penetrations. you should still manage a 6 with 5 of them firing but it gets harder.


Prescience allows re-rolls on shooting not to wound rolls.... unless ..... Question ? does Prescience allow re-rolls on template to wound and armour pen rolls since a template weapon does not roll to hit. Twin linked and template is a re-roll required on failed to wound and armour penetration rolls.

How does prescience and its re-rolls interact with a template weapon?
In my case if a S4 D scythe template with the distort rule auto pens or auto wounds a model, vehicle or building on 6 you can re-roll those failed pens/wounds. Given that when firing at a building with a template the building is auto hit.




Cheers Shaun


Last edited by Shaun on Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:14 pm 
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Yeah I"m with Shaun on that particullar argument. Therefore it's an advantage to have one little dude 13" back.

It seems from the comments above there is a number of way to take advantage of the rules as they stand, and I guess that's the game really.

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 Post subject: Re: out of range wound allocation
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:48 pm 
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i understand the rules for "extending" kill zones fine, i'm just not convinced about bolters (and other rapid fire weapons)not being about to wound out to 24" if they're all within "double tap" range. I'm at work, so i'll go home and have a read of the "rapid fire" rules, and the associated profiles. it won't be the 1st time i've been wrong.

that all of this is over the a single shot (the difference between one guy at 12" vs 13"), is pretty funny though. :lol:


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