South Island Wargaming, New Zealand.

South Island Wargaming, New Zealand.

 
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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:35 pm 
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Hi Cam,
yes it was almost a straight points swap, if Chris had of failed just one save or die on karn (stats would suggest he should have failed 2) then I think it would have been points neutral. I did however still have most of the command squad left at the end of the game.
Something thats a little hard to give a tangible value to is board control, to have a dual land raider assault chaos list sit back and shoot because Chris didn't think he could win in an assault was gold. Especially when las cannon shots are plinking of storm sheilds or feel no pain saves.

Wes,
Yes the death stars weakness will be having to make lots of saves, the artificer armour, 4 wounds, feel no pain and mobility of the bike means the chapter master can tank quite a lot before having to look out sir wounds away to single wound models but eldar and tau will be interesting. I'm particuarly interested to see how it goes against your venom spam which I assume is what I'll be facing on Thursday?
I get a feeling it might end up being one of those games where going first is vital

On the grav gun and cover saves, I know to the word of the rules you probably don't get a vehicle cover save against the effect of grav weapons, but almost every instance of this sort of thing has ended up with an faq going the way of rules as intended. I am certain GW did not intend grav weapons to bypass vehicle cover saves, thats what the auspex is there for :)


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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:24 am
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Location: Hiding under the bed, wishing Kam had pants on
Hmmm, yes being on the receiving end of the deathstar was not fun, however it's hard to comment on the resiliency of it vs shooting when a) I had a 2 x Land raider chop-list, and b) I didn't waste a lot of time shooting it anyways.

Not sure if Shane actually mentioned the result of this game..........but he lost lol, possibly due to as much luck as anything else but that's part of the game isn't it? Also only 3 troop units hurt him bad, after 6 turns no SM scoring units on the board.

I have to say that despite losing the combat it was rather fun to see the command squad with that banner v Kharn and berserkers. Everyone with Hatred, hating everyone else until they died from it makes for a vicious melee that's for sure!

For the record I had Kharn + berserkers in LR, Fabius + Slaanesh CSMs in LR, 2 x 10 cultists (one slaanesh, one khorne), 3 nurgle oblits, 5 nurgle bikes, The Chicken of Death at 2000 points.

I await with baited breath the deathstar's performance against an opponent with some actual shooting skillz.

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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Location: South of the Border, West of the Sun
It is interesting that he lost. i figured that would be a problem that spending 1k on a single unit would produce. being able to tie them up in CC is a hope of mine; units with invuls would be useful there i'm sure.

we'll see how i do vs grav guns.

what are the thoughts on Gravguns and vehicle cover (or invul) saves?


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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Location: Hiding under the bed, wishing Kam had pants on
While RAW could well support the no cover save, If GW really wanted them to do it, they'd have written "Ignores Cover" under the weapon description in the codex. Shane and I believe it's a minor oversight on their part which will no doubt get FAQd in the near future as I can see it's gonna be a hot topic.

In short, anyone trying to ignore the cover saves with grav guns is in need of a punch to the nads for being a miserable rules lawyer.

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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Location: South of the Border, West of the Sun
:lol: you hear that, Shane? :wink:

I just wanted to know where people stood before the dice started rolling. it's remarkably hard to be objective about a rule once the game has started.


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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:21 pm 
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Location: South Side of Hell. Then a bit more south.
As some people have found, the best defence against gav-guns have been more barrage weapons. and no armour :)

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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:50 am 
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Grav guns are a very expensive upgrade that will be gold against one opponent and useless against the next. They will murder MEQ builds, especially coupled with an auspex or divination so long as you spend points to make them mobile. But against Deamons or foot orks they have little use.

I need a few more games with them to be sure but I think I'll be sticking to mostly meltas and flamers on the bikes with only one or two squads packing grav.

In saying that I did throw together a 22 Grav gun biker list at 2000pts using a single force org. I think that list would be interesting to give a go at some point but it might be hard to find anyone who would want to play against it.


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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:05 am 
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One interesting use I did see was grav guns used in conjunction with rune priests with JAWS. The concussive effect of the grav is used to nerf initiative followed by JAWS forcing an initiative test and removing the model from play if failed.

I doubt JAWS will be around in it's current form once the wolfs get an new dex but in the mean time multi wound models beware!


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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:50 pm 
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Lol that's one horrid combo!

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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:26 pm 
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Location: South Side of Hell. Then a bit more south.
:twisted: Must try that!

If you want another option use the scout landspeeder with it's Blind weapon if you don't kill the target.

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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:19 pm 
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Now i know we're in "theory-hammer" territory when we're pretending the Blind USR has a use :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:39 am 
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Worked for me when I used it on 10 death company.

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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:53 am 
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Well that went poorly, but it was more about the 6 **** land speeder tempests and the 2 stalkers on the back board edge than the damn deathstar. That it was Victory Points and not objectives didn't help my cause either.

Shane was very gracious in not doing much damage with those speeders but even when only 2 of the 6 did anything i managed to fail all the associated saves, so it was a bit a weird game.

We did establish that the techmarines aren't bringing anything much to the unit, and are in fact just adding Victory pts to the squad making it a 5 VP target. so there's a few pts saved there.

in CC all the storm shields proved their worth, and the lack of power weapons didn't seem to matter much, mostly due to poor model placement on my part.

Kahn is a wimp in CC, easily pushed around by solid CC characters or just solid CC units but that Chapter Master w/ the S6 toy (stupid T3/instant death), artificer armour and storm shield is a bastard.

The graveguns only got shot once and did nothing.

The game really had us all talking about Alpha Strike and the proliferation of shooting at the expense of CC, since there was little else for my army to do but take a ton of shooting and scoot around hoping he failed saves. The wyches were about useless in CC and the incubi as well thanks the all the storm shields.

i really feel like some of the more fun lists to play are the less competitive ones, since they have a variety of toys and weirdnesses while the competitive ones have these large resilient blocks supported by the most pts efficient death machines possible (since you spent all your points on the deathstar) Shane and i bemoaned the lack of viable variety in the DE codex while praising the viable variety in the new SM book; hopefully all the 6th ed books continue to roll out quickly and have as much viable variety


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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:29 am 
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I am keen to vs the 1750A list some time if you want to Shane? It will be interesting going up against all that ummm fast hard unit of death.

:)

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 Post subject: Re: White Scars Death Star
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:55 pm
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Location: Invercargill, New Zealand
The legion of the damned plasma canons whomp on bikes, with no cover saves


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